Show Notes:

Aspiring artists everywhere flock to the open auditions for TV shows like The Voice, American Idol, Songland, or America’s Got Talent. It seems like an easy enough decision, try your luck. There’s a ton to gain, and not much to lose. But is that really true? In this episode, we discuss the pros and cons of auditioning for music competition shows, like what you really stand to gain, and the catch that goes along with it. We also cover some ways to maximize the benefit of auditioning and minimize the potential downfalls.

KOBY: [00:00:00] Welcome back for episode 42 of self signed artist. Have you ever considered auditioning for a show like American idol or the voice or song land in this episode, we’re talking about whether these shows are worth it for boosting your music career. Yeah.

 How’s it going? Everybody? I’m Koby Nelson and I’m here with the only idol that America should really care about. Jake Mannix.

JAKE: [00:00:58] Hello? Hello,

KOBY: [00:01:00] How’s it going? Jake? back in the regular studio now.

JAKE: [00:01:03] back again. Like I never left right here in New York.

KOBY: [00:01:08] Nice. How are you doing?

JAKE: [00:01:09] I’m doing all right. Doing all right. How are you doing?

KOBY: [00:01:12] I’m doing okay. I had a weird setup for this episode today. I did a session yesterday. Outside of like my actual studio space and I packed up all my stuff and got it out there. So I was setting it up today and it took me way, way, way too long to get my microphone set up and working today. I took like 10 minutes trying to figure out why I couldn’t get signal.

through my mic only to find out that I didn’t have it plugged in.

JAKE: [00:01:39] and sometimes it’s just one of those days.

KOBY: [00:01:42] yeah. Today was definitely one of those days. Uh, and to everybody out there listening, please hire me. I’m an audio engineer.

JAKE: [00:01:49] Professional.

KOBY: [00:01:49] my best advertisement right there. So, yeah, it’s been a little bit of one of those days.

but I, I think we have a good topic to talk about today. We don’t have a guest today, so it’s one of our solo episodes, which we haven’t done in a little while. and I thought that this was a good topic for us to cover. Ourselves, just to have a little bit of a discussion, and not putting anybody on the spot as a guest for the topic we’re going to talk about.

So, we want to cover the kind of pros and cons of auditioning for a TV show for your music career. Jake, do you know anybody who’s audition for any of these shows or anything like that?

JAKE: [00:02:27] Um, I do know a few people that have auditioned. I don’t know anyone that’s gone through.

KOBY: [00:02:32] Okay. So I know like a surprising number of people who have gone after a bunch of these shows.

a couple of people have made it decent way through, and I met one person who’s actually won one of the shows. I don’t know anybody well, who’s won any of the shows, but, I was just thinking about this. I was talking to my wife recently about all of these shows, cause she teaches high school, choir and gives voice lessons and things like that.

And she has a lot of students who ask her about whether or not they should audition. And she asked me about it. And I was like, I don’t know, maybe this is something that we should actually discuss and go through the pros and cons, because I think that there are definitely potential pros, but I think that there are a lot of cons that people might overlook just from the, I dunno, it’s TV, the glamour of things.

We’ll kind of cover up some of the, maybe not so great things that go along with it.

JAKE: [00:03:29] Yeah. I feel like there’s a lot that people don’t know about these kinds of shows.

KOBY: [00:03:32] Yeah, and I think that’s kind of design too, because, and that’s one of the things I think we’re going to talk about as a topic for this. because it is sort of like secretive. and I don’t know, knowing some people who have gone through the process with some of these shows has been sort of eyeopening to me.

So,  obviously we’re not going to be able to cover everything. I haven’t been on any shows. You haven’t been on any shows, so we’re kind of just. Talking through generally. but I figured we probably have some listeners out there who at least at some point have considered auditioning.

I know, I don’t know if anybody else gets these. I get pretty regular emails from the voice. I’ve no idea why like emails asking me to sign up to audition or whatever. I don’t know how I got on this email list. I’m not an artist anyways. Like I don’t. Sing, I don’t perform publicly or I’m not sure why that has been happening, but I get them like every couple of months.

Um, so if other people are out there getting them too, maybe there are people who have thought, Hmm, maybe this would be worth my while. So we kind of want to go through all of those pluses and minuses. So should we just start going through the pros or the potential benefits of auditioning for one of these shows and, and move on to the cons and then maybe how somebody who chooses to go this route might be able to maximize the potential for them.

Does that sound like a decent plan?  All right. So I think the thing that everybody thinks going into one of these shows is that they’re going to get a lot of exposure, right? Like that’s the reason that anybody is signing up as an artist. If you’re trying to promote yourself as an artist, You want to be on TV.

You want people to see your face, know your name, get that familiarity. So So I think that, think the main that people are in thinking about And obviously some potential to that and there are a lot of people who go these that get exposure it’s or exposure they get people them who wouldn’t otherwise known them so we’re going come back to some the cons that go along with that pro later on Cause there quite a actually I think one of the other Main benefits artists can from going One these that might be less obvious is Connections that can make while on the show I for I do mean like industry connections There may be some label people you could meet that might in the more obvious that people are for But I think a of value in the peer connections that you make on one of these and through of my friends who have gone through this that’s one the things that hear them talk as Like a great takeaway from auditioning for anything is that met a of other musicians that they formed really good with Like would have been something that you would have of Jake as a benefit to going on show?

JAKE: [00:06:45] not immediately, but now that you say that, I guess they’re just, you’re just around all these like-minded people that are there for the same thing to accomplish the same goal as you. So if you, you could probably tap in and like yeah. Just to network with those people. That’s cool. That’s awesome.

KOBY: [00:07:05] Yeah. And I think like you said you’re all the situation shooting for the goal and all the same fears and stresses everything that’s there’s lot potential to create some great relationships because that sort of shared and the pressure of the situation and don’t think many people go into this thinking it from like a collaboration standpoint too because You’re going on a show to perform And depending the show that may or may have anything to do with writing music like for idol or for the I there are occasionally people who do original songs there and like that but it’s more about the performance side of but anybody going on that show a lot people I think who going on show If they’re about music they’re writing they’re playing instruments they’re producing So there’s a lot there’s a big pool of people that can of tap into And it’s pool people that is probably not local to Maybe starting off when kind tour around each individual city or that will be to you So that’s one pool of but as move on through competition, you’re.

Tapping into, uh, a wider of more and people who are a level, maybe. so that’s, I think

 JAKE: [00:08:39] yeah. And I mean, they, like, even if they had one in New York, I feel like that pulls people from, from everywhere. It has to,

KOBY: [00:08:48] Yeah. It’s not to be just people from New York city it’s going to people surrounding too you are kind of into a a pool of from friends I’ve talked like are lots of Relationships and that come from And there have been people who have pretty big successes working together after the show whether or they like made to final rounds anything that like they’ve still done just having peer connections within the  I I think the industry Connections as potential is true but I don’t know much exposure you’re really to at least day to with anybody that’s going have enough like clout or authority to make a difference in career Like I imagine most of people you’re dealing are kind of Handlers you like who are bringing you from place to another show who essentially telling you you to do and stuff like that those aren’t the of industry that are necessarily going to make big difference in career I don’t

JAKE: [00:10:04] Yeah, but at the same time networking with those people, like sometimes like those people are probably not trying to stay in their, position,  for their lifetime.

You know what I mean? So, I don’t know. I don’t know. It could be cool to network with them, but

KOBY: [00:10:18] them, but also.

JAKE: [00:10:19] no, it’s not, it’s not directly the people that you’re looking before. I don’t think.

KOBY: [00:10:23] Yeah. I mean, it’s like that kind of good rule to by that is talked about a lot the music sort relating to this is that like you want to

JAKE: [00:10:33] to be

KOBY: [00:10:34] friendly and try and make connection with Anybody you into contact with because like the the classic example that like you up record label or and you get an on the Like you to have a genuine connection that assistant because that is looking to move up the later on and chances are are going to move up in the later and be in position where they can think back, Oh, I know this musician. You should check out this person or whatever like that, that happens all the time.

So that’s a good point that maybe you’re not going to meet the person who is directly going to have a huge impact on your career right now, but that can like evolve into something that can have a bigger impact later. So I think that’s a really good point. I think the biggest benefit here with a show is that.

It is a direct line to potential fans. Like you have a direct line to the eyeballs and ear holes of people who are actually looking for artists to support. And like, to me, even with all the cons that we’re going to talk about that come along with that. That’s a huge, huge benefit. So if you’re thinking about promoting yourself as an artist in a lot of the ways that we even talk about on this podcast, you’re, you’re kind of promoting yourself to people who aren’t necessarily looking for an artist to support at that moment.

You know, like if you’re, if we’re talking about social media marketing and stuff like that, you’re marketing to people who are. Scrolling through looking for a way to pass time. Essentially, they’re not like scrolling through Tik TOK or Instagram being like, I hope I find an artist I can be a fan of, and you’re trying to then convince them that you’re worth their time to learn more about.

Whereas for these shows, that is kind of like what people are tuning in for, you know, they want to hear somebody they can get excited about and support. To the end goal of like winning the competition. Like a lot of the shows are based on votes and stuff like that. So I think that’s a huge benefit. You have captive audience who wants to support somebody.

So all you have to do in that, case is convince them that you’re the somebody that they should support. You know what I mean?

JAKE: [00:12:59] Text your answer now.

KOBY: [00:13:00] Yeah, exactly. Texts Is that, how do they normally do it? It’s like  number you have to text in for each individual contestant.

Like each one has a, a number I’ve never actually voted for anybody on

any of


JAKE: [00:13:12] Each one of them has a


KOBY: [00:13:13] Yeah. So

I don’t know. I think that is. Really big and maybe overlooked you kind of think of it as a wide audience. an audience of everybody. And a lot of the time we talk about that, not being a good thing, as far as like marketing and stuff goes, you don’t want to market to everybody.

You kind of want to pick a, a niche and market to that person, or like way back in episode two, We talked about a fan avatar and Picturing a person that you’re trying to direct your music to, in this case, you have that already done for you.

you know who the audience is, it’s fans of American idol or fans of the voice or fans of for like song land, maybe it’s fans of the individual producers who are judges on the show. So you can kind of tailor what you do. To that person, as much as you’re able to, with the way the show is set up and producers and you know, them deciding what is shown and everything like that.

So I mean, to me, the pros are the, the more obvious things the cons are, I think where people sort of. you know, stop considering things. And they don’t want to think about the cons because the whole idea, so glamorous and stuff for being on TV. But there are our list of cons is a little bit longer than pros.

so let’s go through some of those. the first thing that I want to talk about for a con is the contract that you have to sign to be on a lot of these shows as a contestant. if you think about what show and like the company really is trying to do with this show is they’re trying to get. Viewers like they want people to tune in and root for you to win the show, but they’re not necessarily concerned with how much money you’re to make after the fact from whatever success you find in the show, they want people tuning it and they want eyeballs on screen for the show.

That’s not good for you as an artist, you don’t have a lot of bargaining power when it comes to what kind of deal you can get through the show you’re coming in as somebody who, I mean, in almost all cases, doesn’t have a record deal yet. Chances are you don’t have a huge following already. You’re looking to build your following by being on the show. So that means that you don’t have. Many chips to use in the bargaining, conversations beforehand, it’s kind of a blanket contract that you sort of just have to sign.

If you want to participate, you know, you can’t really negotiate anything. And that allows them to create terms that really aren’t designed to help you they’re designed to help the company or whatever record company is associated with it. In the case that you do well and are able to sell a bunch of records or get a ton of streams after the fact.


JAKE: [00:16:26] yeah, it sounds like you kind of just become a product.

KOBY: [00:16:29] Right.  you’re looking for a record deal as an artist on your own, you have ways that you can create that. bargaining power you can build clout by, generating a huge following for yourself ahead of time where you already are bringing fans to the table, or you can position yourself to work with a specific person who already has a bunch of clout, whether that’s a producer or, or something you can.

position yourself on your own terms. You don’t really have that when you’re going on. One of these shows as a contestant, they kind of lay out the terms and it’s, if you want to be here, you have to sign this. and there are tons of stories of people who have even won the shows.

Like you can look back at the winners for all the American idol for all the seasons. There’s a huge percentage of them where I bet you’ll say, I don’t know what that person has done for. The last few years, I haven’t heard anything from them. I don’t want to throw anybody’s name out there, but you can find lists online of this.

Like if you just look up, success and failure of American idol contestants or something like that, I’m sure there has been somebody who’s written blog posts and stuff about, um, who’s done stuff after. Yeah, exactly. So it’s not necessarily designed to help you. It’s designed to help. show?

JAKE: [00:17:50] A con for me, would be being typecast, to the fans or in the industry or whatever. So meaning you would always be that person from American idol, you would always be that person from America’s got talent, the voice song, land, whatever.

and I don’t know, some people may think that’s cool. It may make it harder work with people because I don’t know what people think of American idol or, you know what I mean? It’s just, I think it would be tough. Always being associated with a television show

as an artist.

KOBY: [00:18:31] yeah, no, I think that is absolutely true. And I mean, there, a few notable exceptions to that. I would say, I don’t know, people like the first winner of American idol, Kelly Clarkson, who. Yeah, gone on to make a big career. and at least to a certain extent has been able to pull away from that.

But even, even her, like there’s always that association. So I think that’s absolutely true. And, whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing is kind of open for interpretation. would Kelly Clarkson be in the same position that she’s in now without American idol, who’s really to say, would any of the winners who have been successful from any of these like talent shows, would any of them have been successful without the show?

It’s impossible to say. So it’s one of those things where it’s, we can call it a con or we can call it a benefit. But there’s no way really to know whether it’s either.

that’s kind of a question that has to come down to the individual. Like, do you care if your success is associated with something like that?

I don’t know for you, Jake, like, do you feel like there’s a difference. Perception of an artist that has come to success through one of these shows versus somebody who just



I guess we could say Rose on



JAKE: [00:20:00] Maybe not to the general public. I don’t think to the people that watch American idol, I don’t think there’s any difference.

KOBY: [00:20:08] Okay. And I mean, that kind of comes back to the idea that we were talking about before of, the direct line to people who are actually looking to become a fan of somebody.

Like that’s the audience. So if that’s the audience that you want, then maybe this doesn’t matter to you at all. that’s, that’s the audience you get. So maybe there is no con there, but if you’re looking for a different audience, maybe that is a con

JAKE: [00:20:33] yeah. Is it even your audience?

even like what we were talking about earlier, prior to the pod about Kelly Clarkson, not liking her hits.

KOBY: [00:20:45] Right? Yeah. I don’t know how many people out there have heard those stories and I mean, who’s to say really how much of them are true and stuff like that. But like, I’ve heard a lot, even just from reading books, like memoirs of industry people and stuff like that, about how Kelly Clarkson hated some of her hits songs and didn’t even want to put them out, like

JAKE: [00:21:08] this

KOBY: [00:21:09] you’ve been gone,

which yeah, I w I will rock that song with my windows down in the summer.

Super loud any day

JAKE: [00:21:18] not

So, so here’s, uh, here’s what I’m saying is like, if you went up to Kelly Clarkson and you were like, Kelly, since he’d be gone, I love that song.

I love it. She’d be like, like, thank you. But like, thanks. Like,


are you really ma are you a fan of me? Are you a fan of like what my label wrote for me,

KOBY: [00:21:40] for


JAKE: [00:21:41] would be confusing.

KOBY: [00:21:42] that kind of has to come down to you as an artist and like what you hope your artist career is. If your goal is to work with some really great industry song writers, maybe that’s awesome. If your goal is own music, maybe that’s not awesome at

JAKE: [00:22:00] see what you’re saying. Yeah.

KOBY: [00:22:02] So that’s kind of tricky because that was her big thing. I think for. Those songs is that, she had written a bunch of music herself as well, and they weren’t treated the same way as the singles who are written, like, since you’ve been gone written by, max Martin and Dr. Luke both. So like, Two of the like biggest songwriters in the industry. So like, that kind of comes down to your priorities as an artist too.

JAKE: [00:22:33] Right. I see what you’re saying. Like, has she not wanted to re release her own music and she just wanted to be a singer and sang these songs, then it’s game time then everything’s good.

KOBY: [00:22:45] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean like this is going away a little bit from the show topic to a certain extent, but like people heard her music like her songs that she wrote, maybe because of the big hit songs that she got, and maybe she got these big hit songs from these huge songwriters because of American idol.

So it’s like, it’s one thing leads to another. Maybe she’s still got her end goal of a bunch of fans hearing her songs because of this. So it really is priorities. It’s a strange thing to think

about especially if your priority is to have people hear your songs and maybe people will say that selling out, but.

this, this, we’re getting a little bit of a side tangent our, our topic of these shows. but I think that’s an interesting conversation as well. And I think your point of being typecast is definitely a potential con for a lot of people. So something that’s good to bring up.  one other thing that I think at least from talking to people who have been on these shows that I don’t think of, and it’s something that’s not highlighted in the show.

So I don’t think a lot of people out there are really considering this. But making it far on one of these shows is a big commitment on your time as well, which is a potential con, especially if you don’t see a ton of benefit in your music career, because of like people have to quit their day jobs and stuff like that because you have to be present for the show.

You know what I mean?

JAKE: [00:24:12] Yeah. That’s tragic. 

KOBY: [00:24:15] that’s something that you have to consider. And I mean, if you’ve ever seriously considered. Any of these shows, I’m sure that’s something that you’ve thought about as an artist. Like you can find all that information about like how long you need to commit to something.

and stuff like that. Like you have to, in a lot of cases, especially if you get further in a show, you have to go to a different city and stuff like that and stay there for a significant amount of time. so that’s something that you want to think about too. Is that worth it in the end, even if you were to see nothing significant as a benefit from that show, is that risk worth it to you?

so that’s a potential con. and then I think the last con, which is kind of, an interesting and funny one to me is that to a certain extent, the way these shows portray you is. Outside of your control. Like you don’t know whether the exposure you get is going to be positive

JAKE: [00:25:11] or negative.

KOBY: [00:25:12] You know what I mean?

Like there, there are so many examples, especially I feel like early on in American idol specifically, there were so many examples of people who got a lot of exposure, but for the wrong reason and people who took their music seriously too. So it’s a little bit, it’s kind of sad. to see that, especially when it’s somebody who is serious about this, but then painted in a weird way on the show, just for views, just for the, I don’t know, entertainment value, I guess, you know, Yeah, I don’t want to perpetuate any of that.

Any of that, like  talk about any specifics there, but that’s something you have to consider. And I’m not saying that like any artist out there like that you have to watch out, make sure you’re not like so bad that the show is going to just absolutely ruin your image or something like that. But like yeah, you should be reflecting. And just making sure that, like, this is something that you are aware of and that could happen. And that that’s part of what the shows are designed around. They’re designed around entertainment and sad to say, but like failure, in some cases it is entertaining to a lot of people.

So, just something to be aware of.

So the last con that I have, comes down to this same kind of idea of exposure, and that’s your control over what you are allowed. To highlight from your show experience. And this is something that I think would get overlooked, but it’s definitely something that’s in the contracts for all of these shows.

And that is a nondisclosure agreement. You are definitely signing an NDA. If you’re going on one of these shows, they don’t want you talking. Can you about anything that is happening behind the scenes? They don’t want you taking away any of the mystery from the audience. And that kind of ties your hands a little bit.

Like you might think of one of these shows as great, like Instagram potential and stuff like that, but chances are, it’s not really going to be that for you. Cause you’re not going to be alive loud to show all the stuff you might want to show. you might not be able to use it for your own publicity the way you would hope.

JAKE: [00:27:26] yeah. Yeah. Like you can’t post a. Your vocal coaching, you can’t post your, your hair and makeup getting done. I don’t think maybe they take pictures for you or something.

KOBY: [00:27:38] I think a lot of that stuff is meant to kind of be behind the scenes. Like I don’t recall. Seeing really any content at all about that, like behind the scenes stuff and like, sure. Maybe you’re going to run into whatever, some famous artists who.

Is a coach or something like that, or have some sort of one-on-one interaction with them. But like, you’re not going to be able to do anything with that. it’s not gonna help you for any clout or anything like that because you just can’t talk about it and you can’t show it. So. Your hands are kind of tied with how you are shown to show producers and everything are the really the ones who have the say over how you are depicted.

that’s maybe not something that a lot of people would want for themselves. or maybe that’s something that you don’t care about. And, and that’s not a big deal to you, but it’s just something to consider. So, those are kind of the pros and cons that we have put together for this. I do want to take a little bit, maybe to talk about what you might be able to do.

If you decide that going on, one of these shows is the right option for your music career. Like what are the things that you can do to maximize the impact of the experience on your career? there are some like basic things that I think you should be thinking about going into one of these shows.

the first thing I think you might be able to guess from some of the pros and cons that we’ve talked about here is just to set your expectations in A reasonable way. I don’t think you want to go into one of these shows with delusions of grandeur, or that might put you in a position where this could be a really bad experience and, something that affects your life and your mental health and the way you feel about yourself.

So I think anytime you’re going into one of these competitions, you just want to. Be levelheaded about it. You want to think about your expectations beforehand and make sure that you aren’t expecting too much.

JAKE: [00:29:48] you read that. Yeah. Cause you never

KOBY: [00:29:50] never know what you’re going to get up,

And it could be great.

That’s not to say that you can’t hope for great things to happen. but I don’t think you should put too much of your emotional energy into hoping that that’s going to happen and thinking that that’s going to happen because. For most people, even for winners, a lot of the time, I don’t think it ends up being what they expect.

and I think that’s a big part of it too, with setting your expectations is that you shouldn’t go into this thinking that winning is your golden ticket and that that’s gonna make your entire career because there are plenty of examples of people who have won. whose careers haven’t really gone anywhere in music afterwards, maybe they put out a record that didn’t sell well, and that was it.

So, kind of ties back to one of the things that we talk about on this podcast a lot is that you can’t go into something thinking that somebody else is going to do the work for you. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, with one of these shows, if you win it, you might end up with a record deal.

But I think you’ve heard from other artists who have been guests on this podcast, getting a record deal doesn’t mean your work stops. So that’s kind of one of the things that you have to go in thinking about that if you win your work is

JAKE: [00:31:09] Jump

KOBY: [00:31:10] if that

JAKE: [00:31:11] Yeah.

KOBY: [00:31:11] sense.

JAKE: [00:31:12] Yeah.

KOBY: [00:31:12] and I think another expectation. That you should sort of temper is how much fans are going to stick with you after the fact. So like we talked about, there’s kind of this captive audience that you are trying to get on your side when you’re on one of these shows, hoping that they’ll vote for you. And even if you do get a ton of votes on the show, I

JAKE: [00:31:36] think lot of people,

KOBY: [00:31:37] expect those fans to then stick around after the fact.

But like, we’ve kind of mentioned all of these shows and their audiences are kind of like, uh, a little microcosm, you know what I mean? There’s sort of a self-contained thing. Fans of American idol, fans of the voice, and it still takes work to then convert them to a fan of you outside of that environment.

I think, which I think is part of the reason that a lot of artists still struggle. After the show they are famous within the show, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to a wider music

JAKE: [00:32:17] Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Because if you don’t watch the show, you don’t know about them unless you over hear about them or

KOBY: [00:32:23] And even if you do watch the show. after the show is done or after that season is done, you’re not constantly being reminded that this person exists. So it is then on the fan to follow up with an artist and stay. Up to date on what that artist is doing, which I don’t think necessarily happens.

You can’t assume that that’s going to happen. So again, the work is just starting at the conclusion of the show. It’s just new work for you to start.

JAKE: [00:32:53] How do you feel about. Having a strategy. When you go on one of these shows like American idol or the voice, having a strategy going in as far as an agenda or things you want to accomplish.

KOBY: [00:33:08] think that that’s the best thing to do with any of these shows and that kind of goes along with. setting your expectations a little bit is that you should go in thinking about ways that you can leverage this opportunity into a, lasting benefit for you.

And some of those come back to some of the things that we’ve already talked about, like making connections with other contestants that has a lot of potential for lasting effect, regardless of how well you actually do on the show. I think that it’s also good to just kind of set layered goals for yourself, whether that has to do with actually how far you make it on the show.

kind of like what we’ve talked about in past episodes with setting goals or you have like an AB and a C goal, that can kind of help with the, the mental and emotional stress that goes along with being in this sort of pressure situation.

and also allow you to kind of take it in steps and work towards, whatever you hope to get out of the show, whether that’s more fans or whether that is, some clout or some industry connections or some collaboration, connections, just having some sort of. Layered goal list set up ahead of time.

I think also as far as strategy, I want to get your take on this too, Jake, because this is kind of just a thought that I’ve had. And I don’t know, I haven’t really talk to any of my friends who have been on these shows about what they think about this, but I don’t know if you necessarily want to assume that winning is the best strategy.

Like I could see maybe some situations we’re going far and then not winning. Could be better than actually winning. do you think that could be the case?

JAKE: [00:34:57] Yeah. I mean, I’m a huge fan. I’m a huge Daughtry fan, man. Love Daughtry. I love a few songs by Dodger, but

KOBY: [00:35:09] Here’s Dr. Fan love, love those two songs.

JAKE: [00:35:15] had he gone all the way? Well, here’s the thing about Daughtry. I heard that band that he was with. After American idol was comprised of members of his band that he was in before American idol. that’s so dumb. Audrey that’s. So him and I think that’s so sick and I don’t think that had he won, He would have been able do that. And I really think he would have put out some really trash music.

KOBY: [00:35:46] would he have even been allowed to do what he

JAKE: [00:35:50] want me to do. Right. Right. So I don’t, and I don’t know, like, is there a contract that prohibits him from doing anything after making it past a certain point on the show?

KOBY: [00:36:00] that? I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know what goes into that part of it.

JAKE: [00:36:03] I say go all the way to second place.

KOBY: [00:36:06] I think that there’s some evidence though, that that is a better strategy getting second place. Like I know there are some classic examples. Again, I’m not going to mention specific people just cause I don’t want to point out individual artists, shortcomings and stuff like that.

But there are a lot of cases where the person who came in second did. Better. It was more successful than the person who ended up winning. and there are a lot of cases. I think of people who have been even further back fourth, fifth, like runner up to the show who have had bigger, longer lasting careers than the person who won the show.

So I don’t, I think the point of that is just to say that winning. Isn’t necessarily necessary to see benefit. And it’s also definitely not a guaranteed benefit. and if you create the right strategy for your time on the show, whatever show it is, I think you, might be better to not win than it is to win.

I don’t know, don’t have a ton of evidence to suggest that except just seeing the numbers basically of what people have done afterwards, but that’s kind of the sense that I get. So, I’ve got to ask some of my friends about that who have been on the show and if they, they would agree with that assessment.

but I have a hunch that quite a few of them would,

I think the last piece of advice that I would have for people is just to go into any of these situations with a backup plan because. Like we’ve said, even success on the show doesn’t necessarily guarantee long-term success for you.

So if you need to quit your job or you need to move locations, or you need to be away from family at a time that you should be near your family should be close to home. Those are the types of things where like, I don’t think that these shows are worth it. I don’t think it’s worth, Really impacting your life for the opportunity.

Would you

JAKE: [00:38:07] agree with that. Yeah. Entirely. You don’t want to uproot your life for American idol, you don’t want to uproot your life for American idol.

KOBY: [00:38:16] and I think the temptation is definitely there for that. even now, even after I don’t, I don’t think it’s completely unheard of the things that we’re talking about in this episode has cons. I think a lot of people are aware, at least peripherally that some of these cons are a thing, but the allure of being on.

a nationally broadcast show even with declined viewership, still a big audience like that is appealing and tempting. And I think it’s easy to rationalize making a big life decision based around the potential of that. So I would just want to caution people on that and just to. Reflect on your actual situation and not just to be realistic about it, but just to really think about your priorities.


JAKE: [00:39:10] All right, guys. So if you’ve gone on one of these shows, if you know someone that’s been on one of these shows, or you have an opinion about these kinds of shows, we want to hear from you. We want to hear from you on Instagram. And in of course, the a five-star reviews section of our Apple podcast page. and we kinda just want to know what you guys think. because it’s a fun topic.

KOBY: [00:39:36] absolutely. that’s all we’ve got for you on this episode, and we’ll catch you on the next episode of self signed artists.