Show Notes:

When the right artist finds the right producer, a 5-hour drive once a month (both ways) seems like nothing. 3dm (artist) and Shiggy (producer), manage to consistently make it work and come out with great music even though they only have very limited windows of time to do it.

In this episode, we talk about the influence of home communities, finding and clearing samples, the pressure of limited session time, preparing for when creativity dries up, acknowledging but avoiding trends, and the future of completely remote collaboration.

KOBY: [00:00:00] How’s it going everybody. I’m Koby Nelson and I’m here with the one and only Jake Mannix still currently on the other side of the country from me, at least in LA. Are you guys getting anything done out there having a good time sick of the sun yet?

JAKE: [00:00:16] Definitely having a good time. Definitely not sick of the sun.

KOBY: [00:00:21] I know I’m jealous. Like it snowed here a little bit yesterday when the forecast said it was. Sunny and clear, like at the time that it was snowing, I looked at my phone, it said it was sunny and clear, looked outside. It was cloudy and snowing. So definitely jealous of that.

JAKE: [00:00:38] yeah, the worst we’ve got is a little bit overcast. That was about it.

KOBY: [00:00:42] Yeah. Well, I’m glad you were able to be out there and getting a change of scenery to boost your creativity and stuff.

And, I mean, it’s crazy to how we can be like 3000 miles away. And still record the podcast episode and it’s literally like exactly the same as normal.

JAKE: [00:00:57] It’s pretty sick.

KOBY: [00:00:59] Um, so for our episode today, speaking of long distance collaborations, our two guests today are great example of how finding the right person to work with. Trumps everything else and makes the distance really irrelevant. Um, they’re separated by a four and a half hour drive, according to Google maps, at least when I looked it up.

And even though they live in the same state, the fastest route between them crosses through two other States, also, according to Google maps, But because of how well they work together creatively, they’re able to make it at work. And hopefully in this episode, we’ll be able to find out how so we want to welcome to the podcast artist, producer, duo, 3dm, and Shiggy

3DM: [00:01:44] yo, yo, yo yo yo. What’s good.

SHIGGY: [00:01:47] Yes, sir. How are we doing guys?

KOBY: [00:01:49] pretty good. Are you guys doing thank you for being

SHIGGY: [00:01:51] We’re doing well. Of course. Appreciate you guys having us.

KOBY: [00:01:54] So. Of course in this episode, we want to talk to you guys about your work together. but before we dive into all of that, can you each give us a little bit of your personal background, like how you started making music before you met each other? Maybe let’s start with 3dm.

3DM: [00:02:10] All right. So I basically started at 17. it was just awesome. You feel me? I think I could do it shit before I realized that there was such a thing called a producer.

I thought the artists did everything. You know what I’m saying? So, yeah, bro just started off. Literally just going in there recording, came out with my first tape. It was like a little ransom money tape. I don’t even know where that’s at. I’m pretty sure somebody could find it, but I don’t know where it’s at.

Well, yeah. that was it. Really bro. Put out the tape and then I met, my friend named Izzy. You know what I’m saying? And we were rocking for a while and then I met. Shiggy not too long after that. And then ever since we clicked, it was, it was lit.

KOBY: [00:02:52] nice. So you guys knew each other pretty early on then in, your own musical career.

3DM: [00:02:58] Uh, maybe not early on. Okay. Let’s see. So I started at 17. Um, I had just graduated. I graduated high school early. I was like a young dude. I graduated early. I started not too long after that. I was going into a community college. It’s called Kingsborough. I don’t know if anybody knows of it, but, yeah, with the Kingsborough and I was really just kind of fooling around with music from then after I finished with Kingsborough, I went to Kingsborough for like a year, a little longer than a year.

After that I went to Oneonta and that’s where I met Shiggy and Oneonta. what was that like?

  1. So I was making music from like 2009, 2010. So sometime after that, that’s when I met, she gave me,

KOBY: [00:03:43] So for a few years in then, uh, shaky. What about you? How’d you, uh,

get started.

SHIGGY: [00:03:48] I got into drumming. very early. I want to say around the age of four or five is when I first got my little Fisher price two or three piece kit. Right. So I was a drummer pretty much my whole life, as long as I can remember. And by the time I got into high school is when I started messing around with producing and making beats.

I started really listening to hip hop, studying, studying, sampling, all that stuff, you know, jazz soul, and, um, ended up pursuing a music industry and audio production as SUNY Oneonta. And that’s, that’s where I met Derek was it was in college. We, uh, want to say the first or whatever, the first or second day of classes, we had an audio production class together.

And that was how we met, but we didn’t, we met, but we didn’t start working. Then I want to say we went almost a full year after meeting each other, just, you know, seeing each other in classes, just were in the same audio group, you know, we’d see each other in passing, everything like that, but I didn’t even know he made music like that.

He probably didn’t even know I’m into music like that. so by my sophomore year, Once we got talking, he found out I made beats. I think we set up just something. He came up to my dorm room one day to just, just check some stuff out. And from there it was an immediate click playing him a couple of beats.

He liked one of them. He started showing me some stuff. He does. I was like, Oh man, this is right up my alley. This is very refreshing. And it just, it clicked like that. And ever since then, it’s, we’ve been working hand in hand. However many years it’s been probably what, six, seven years now we’ve known each other,

maybe even more.

I’ve been out of school for five years now. So

seven years, eight years,

KOBY: [00:05:27] Nice. Yeah. Do do you remember what the first song you guys made together was.

SHIGGY: [00:05:30] we put out an EAP called the red IEP back in, um, April 19th of 2014. I don’t remember the exact date. And the second song on the AP was one of the first songs we did. Nice click. It really was. it was pretty wild how it worked out.

KOBY: [00:05:47] Yeah. So you guys have been going strong since then and now shaky you’re in Syracuse and

3m. You’re in Brooklyn, correct? so what is it really that kind of kept you guys working with each other, even after you left school and like spread out like most people, I dunno, even if you have like a,

an artist producer relationship that works really well.

Like if you’re separated by distance, I dunno, people kind of go off do their own things. You’re both kind of, I’m sure in areas where there are tons of other people to work with and stuff. So what, what has kind of like kept you guys coming back and working with each other.

SHIGGY: [00:06:21] for me personally, I always felt like, especially when it came to school ending, we had more work to do. It was always like, okay, we we’ve kind of done some things, but we have so many more ideas that we want to get out that we haven’t been able to do. Like we, we really share, I feel like share the same Sonic vision.

With things, which at least for me personally, I’ve always, you know, I’ve, I’ve had many people over the years that I’ve worked with, that I click with. And I everything works, but very few people do I ever meet that I have like truly the same vision, everything I create, I pass onto him. He he’s with it.

He gets it. it just works for him. It, it, I dunno, it doesn’t always work that way, I guess, for me, it’s just. I feel like I found that artists that I could truly bounce my sound off and it’s no matter what I send him or what, I come up with. He’s, he’s going to be able to copy. He’s going to like it.

He’s going to work with it. And even if he doesn’t at first, like it he’s going to do what he can to try and make it work.

3DM: [00:07:20] So,

that’s what it is, bro. We just make good shit, bro. Honestly, bro, we make good shit, bro. You know what I’m saying? The world needs to hear it bro.

And you know, that’s what we gonna do. That’s it.

JAKE: [00:07:31] Oh yeah. so shaky. you do a lot of

sampling we’ve received some questions

regarding that


So I kind of want to pick your brain a little


How do you go about finding samples that haven’t been used yet? Or maybe flipping samples that have been used in a way that’s fresh. And is it ever a process to get samples cleared?

SHIGGY: [00:07:53] I’ll answer. I’ll answer the second question. First. It is definitely a process to get samples cleared.

JAKE: [00:08:00] any tips for that process?

SHIGGY: [00:08:03] study up on publishing?

and, um, just really understand copyright law. And if you are going to sample. No, what the hell you’re sampling and what it is, and you know, who’s involved with it and what the name of the sample is, who the artist is, what the album is. Everything just be wary of that because in order to get it cleared, you need all of that information.

And the repercussions are awful. Obviously, as you guys know for uncleared samples and not handling that ahead of time. And, um, for the first one.

I’d say I definitely always have. I always have a vision. What I’m looking for when I dig for things, I, I guess there are some people who take the approach, they kind of just, they listen to things and then they hear something and they just get an idea.

Usually I try to be a little more calculated when I’m digging or when I’m, when I’m going to flip a sample, like I have an idea of the end game. And sometimes it just comes down to finding the right sample for that end game, opposed to just going in and looking for something and say, Oh, I heard this, this sounds cool.

I might try to flip it this way. It’s usually like, okay, I have an idea that I’m going to flip something this way. Now I got to find that something

KOBY: [00:09:16] that

seems like the harder way to do it.

SHIGGY: [00:09:18] Oh, it’s it? It is. It is. It’s, it’s the stubborn, stubborn

KOBY: [00:09:22] Yeah.

SHIGGY: [00:09:23] but. I dunno, I have my vision a lot of times with what I have, you know, something in my head that I want to create and I got to find the, the, the missing piece of the puzzle, I guess,

KOBY: [00:09:33] that’s really cool. I would have never thought that that would be really a way that

you could

go about it. Like once you have a vision in your mind for what something could be. how do you go about finding the right thing for that? I dunno. I, I don’t


with samples really at all.

So it’s, I don’t know, to me that kind of blows my mind that that’s even really possible.

SHIGGY: [00:09:55] You just gotta, I guess you gotta know, you gotta know what you’re looking for. Like, if I’m looking for something, let’s say for example, I want something super, super soulful full, you know, strings vocals. limited drums. Like it’s like you, you have to know exactly. What you’re looking for and then understand, okay, this type of genre is where that’s going to be. You know what I mean? Or this type of artist, this type of this type of sound is, is where that sample is going to be. Now you’ve got to find a catalog of that sound and just dig through and see what, see what you can find.

It’s a, Pain in the ass man. It’s, it’s awesome. I love it. But it takes time and it takes a lot. You got to have a lot of patients with it, at least for me, that’s just my process with it.

KOBY: [00:10:38] well, and like you said, it’s kind of like a, scary thing. If you don’t go about it, the correct way, I feel like a lot of people. When it comes to like clearing samples  stuff like that, it’s sort of like generally accepted that you don’t need to clear sample if you’ve processed it and changed it to the point where it’s completely unrecognizable. But I always like caution people on that even. So, because like unrecognizable is sort of a tricky thing to define, and I’ve heard so many stories of people who didn’t clear a sample thought they changed it enough and then an artist will come across it and things will happen. So, so what are your thoughts on that?

As far as. like changing something to the point where it’s unrecognizable, is that, is that ever really a thing that people should be doing or should it always, always, always be clear,

SHIGGY: [00:11:29] Um, well, in that case, it’s a crapshoot, you know, higher, higher risk, higher reward. If you want to take the risk with something, you might get more money. But if you end up, losing, you’re going to lose it all obviously. But, um,

I feel like just try to serve the music There’s times. I do sit there and. I try to flip something to the point you, you don’t even know what it is. And other times you really do just find a loop and you’re like, this is beautiful. I want to work with this. And, and you know, at, at the end of the day, it’s like, you might be limited to how you can put it out, or you might be limited to how much money you’d be able to make off it, but I’m doing it for the music.

You know what I mean? So I usually the legal stuff comes second to me in the sense of. Of how I move when creating

KOBY: [00:12:15] That makes a lot of


JAKE: [00:12:16] so 3d M You’re from New York, C which is one of the biggest hotspots for music, art, anything creative. How do you feel like that’s shaped you as an artist?

3DM: [00:12:30] Beautifully, you know what I’m saying? I feel like there’s room for every style and like where I am, it’s a melting pot of everything. You know what I’m saying? Where I’m from is a lot of Caribbean and was Indian influences.

You know, we could go to Flatbush and then it’s still going to be West Indiana and a whole bunch of just whole bunch of cultures together. So I feel like it just makes sense. That it’s a breeding ground for just new artists and just new talent and just new sounds. You know what I mean? I feel like we do our thing with our sound and we just pushed through with that.

You know what I’m saying?

JAKE: [00:13:08] Yeah. And how, how is the community, how is the music community?

3DM: [00:13:13] how would I describe it? You know what I’m saying? I feel like it’s just a bunch of clicks. Together. And it’s just like, there’s separate cliques. Every, everybody has their own click and everybody has their own group that makes music.

And like, once something is hot, it’s just like, I mean, especially where I’m from. Like when something is hot, it’s just universally accepted. Like, I don’t know when people do the whole, like. this is hot. Like nobody has that conversation to be like, this is hot, but universally in the hood, everybody is like, yeah, this is hot.

So like, I don’t know how that comes about. Like, who’s the gatekeeper. I don’t know of it. I don’t think we have a gatekeeper. I just think whatever’s hot, bro. Cause if it’s wack, they’ll tell you about it for real, but if it’s good, like everybody will fuck with it. I don’t know. I mean, obviously where I’m from, you know, possibilities from there.

So, you know, everybody’s like, Oh, you know, pop, smoke.

JAKE: [00:14:09] All right.


3DM: [00:14:10] shout out the pot though. You feel me? But air bro, he really got shit rocking from our, from like everybody is like confident and like they believe that they can do it cause we seen pop do it. You know what I’m saying? that’s good. I think that influences the community as well.

Just seeing like somebody who. Like you may have seen in passing all the time. Like, you know what I’m saying? Like a regular cat, like a regular dude, just like me. And then you see like where he started and then you see where he got to. It’s just inspirational man.

JAKE: [00:14:42] So you like New York city.

That’s a given Have you ever considered moving somewhere else to pursue music? Like another music hub or even somewhere that isn’t a music hub?

3DM: [00:14:55] Um,

no, cause I feel like that’s the name of the game. That’s like kind of my thing. Like it’s like, I want to blow up here because you know, I just feel like it’s good enough to be blown up here.

You know what I mean? Why would I go somewhere else to do the same thing that I’m doing here? You know what I mean? And I feel like eventually I’ll get to that. Like, I’ll move to a point where. It was like, I need to change the scenery, but as far as making music goals, I could do that hair

JAKE: [00:15:25] right

and Shiggy you’re hours

outside of New York city.

And have you ever considered, maybe moving to a music hub?

SHIGGY: [00:15:35] Yes. I’m in the process now of figuring that out actually. it’s in motion unfortunately COVID messed all that up,

KOBY: [00:15:44] Yeah, of course,

like everything.

SHIGGY: [00:15:47] I’m taking the, I’m sitting on the sidelines right now, waiting for everything to die down

JAKE: [00:15:51] can we get a sneak peek of maybe what music hub that will be?

SHIGGY: [00:15:55] no, I can’t answer that.

Not because I don’t want to give you the answer. But it changes every few months, honestly. Yeah.

JAKE: [00:16:04] Understandable.

SHIGGY: [00:16:05] It’s still in the early, early stages. So,

JAKE: [00:16:08] so how has Syracuse shaped you as an artist and not as a producer?

SHIGGY: [00:16:12] there is a lot of music up here. But there isn’t, um, you know, there isn’t really an industry. And with that, I feel like it’s, given me like time and space to just sit back create what I want to create and just take time to, I guess, grow my sound what I’d like it to be there. There ha there’s not much, you know, outside influence.

On what direction I should go in because there isn’t really a direction, I guess, that I should go in it’s it’s I guess wherever I want to go

KOBY: [00:16:40] that’s actually a really interesting, I’ve never even thought about it that way, that sometimes being in like a music hub where there’s a ton of stuff going on around

JAKE: [00:16:49] you

KOBY: [00:16:50] Ken just like cloud your judgment, and sort of takes away from the freedom almost. You don’t have the freedom to sit back and like take things your own way because you’re, there’s, uh, a barrage of other stuff going on that you can’t really

SHIGGY: [00:17:05] tune out. That’s really interesting. Yeah, definitely. It’s it’s, you know, it’s a double-edged sword, I guess, you know, less opportunities,

KOBY: [00:17:12] first. Yeah. For some things. You also played drums in a band for a country

artist, Mike Powell

though. Right.

can you talk a little bit about how that mixes with what you do on the producer side of things and maybe the role that your location plays in that as well?

SHIGGY: [00:17:31] it’s definitely, um, it’s a light switch.

You know, when I’m going to do the band thing, I, I flipped the switch and, everything musically, I guess, is, tailored different to, whereas when I’m getting back into, producing and working with Eric, I flip the other switch and it’s, I guess, a whole different way of thinking musically, but I’ve been able to.

I guess draw influences from both there’s things that I can benefit from the live music side with producing and being in a studio all the time versus there’s things I can benefit from working on hip hop and take that and try to incorporate it in when I’m, when I’m writing with the band, you know, and working on things that are more towards the country’s genre, it’s tough sometimes.

It definitely is tough to, to play both of those roles, but producing a lot, definitely overall, no matter what type of music you’re working on, you can, you can use that to an advantage.

KOBY: [00:18:29] I’m sure. Being a drummer has a huge impact on the production side of

side of

SHIGGY: [00:18:35] things. Yes, definitely. Especially with, with making beats, just, just having, having that history of, of constantly keeping time and understanding that makes it very easy,

KOBY: [00:18:47] right. Yeah. And the feel of where to put things.

and not that,

you say keeping time, but a lot of the times that doesn’t mean being perfectly in time, you know? Like there’s that feel that comes along with it. That is super, super important. to how a beat feels. And I think that comes across in your guys’s music.

Like there’s definitely a groove to it. Like it doesn’t feel straight all the time. th there’s


SHIGGY: [00:19:12] feeling yet?

Thank you, man.

Yeah, it’s it’s I guess, understanding what you have to do to make, you know, programmed drums sound authentic in a sense, it comes in handy.

JAKE: [00:19:24] so working together the way you guys do not seeing each other for a few months and then, like grinding for a few days. Does it feel like you guys are always on crunch time working under pressure or is there no pressure at all? Smile.

SHIGGY: [00:19:40] to

JAKE: [00:19:41] both of you could answer it.

SHIGGY: [00:19:42] Good.  I feel like the. fun thing with working with Derek is we’re we ha you know, we, we share the same visit, but we’re opposite people in the same city, in many things. I’m very, you know, schedule oriented and, this at two o’clock and then four o’clock is gonna cover.

We’re gonna switch over to this. And then we gotta be home at this time. So we can get this amount of sleep. When we wake up the next day, we can start this next song. And Derek’s the exact opposite of that. He’s he’s head, let’s take our time and, and we’ll see what happens. So, so I feel like when he comes up here, I’m stressing the hell out and he’s, he’s just loving it and enjoying the process.

3DM: [00:20:20] Yeah, bro. I just enjoy being up here, bro. You know, I just enjoyed the process, man. At first, I didn’t love the process, bro. but I just, you know, I’ve never felt like I’m on crunch time, bro.

I just feel like every day is just a new opportunity to get better, man. And you just got to put your best foot forward and just understand that you’re trying to make the best thing possible. And when you’re trying to do something and you have a goal in mind, it’s not that easy. You know what I’m saying?

There will be hiccups along the way, but I just enjoy just being here. Just like being able to just being around, you know, what I love. And just, that will be my only thing to do for the week is just be around what I love. I just love it, man. No problems out here.

KOBY: [00:21:05] how structured is the objective, I guess when you guys are getting together to work on something, is there ever like a deadline or a clear goal in mind or is a lot of the time it just getting together kind of seeing what comes out, looking for that inspiration together and stuff like that?

Like how planned out are your


3DM: [00:21:23] Um, we definitely do have a goal in mind. We kind of have an idea of when we want to put things out and we kind of make music with that in mind. You know what I’m saying? We kind of make music with this sense of, okay. We kind of wanted to be out winter time, and this is the kind of vibe that we’re going to go for as opposed to something that we want to put out in spring or summer, we kind of just gear our music towards what we.

Our goal is, you know,

 KOBY: [00:21:51] And just kind of keeping,

keeping the audience in mind.

yeah, what’s going to hit at the


SHIGGY: [00:21:56] time. especially since we, you know, at most were able to work maybe one week out of the month, usually. So there definitely is always a goal. Every time he comes up here, whether it’s an amount of songs or. Like for example, right now we’re working on an EAP it’s going to be three songs and we already have one done. So the goal for this week with him up here is to just finish the EAP. That’s it. And if we do more excellent. But as long as we finish those two, we’re happy.

No pressure. Exactly.

JAKE: [00:22:28] So when he comes up, do you guys start from scratch or is it like he has an idea? You have an idea, you guys collaborate. What

What was that process? Like?

SHIGGY: [00:22:37] I usually try to have a few beats ready every time he comes up here. sometimes, I have six or seven little, you know, four to eight bar loop demos.

Sometimes I just have one, but I always, at least on my end, try to be prepared with some stuff. So just at least when he does get up here, we have something to immediately dive into. And then while he’s up here, a lot of times we’ll, we’ll kind of just start messing around something will happen from scratch, but.

We try to have things set up, so we’re never let down when he’s up here. If he does come up here and that creativity isn’t flowing, we at least already have things set up and ready to go.

KOBY: [00:23:18] What do you mean by that? Like how do you. Prepare for that. Like the possibility of coming up, not having inspiration strike, when you have this limited amount of time to accomplish something, to get something done that you can then put out, like, how do you manage that? Keep it from becoming pressure, but ensure that there is going to be something at

the end of the year.

SHIGGY: [00:23:40] I just, I won’t let him come up here unless I, you know what I mean? Unless I have a few things ready, so if I don’t have anything ready, usually it’s, let’s, let’s hold off and, wait till there’s at least something there because I don’t know, create creativity is weird, man.

It all, sometimes it hits you in. Sometimes you just, you just have those creative blocks out of nowhere. And you never know how long they’re going to last, at least that’s for me. How about you guys?


KOBY: [00:24:08] sure. You’re yeah, you’re speaking my language. Yeah.

JAKE: [00:24:11] Uh, man, I have no idea. 3d. M how about you? How do you deal with your creative, your creative


3DM: [00:24:17] I kind of just like immerse my brain in something else. for instance, like. Like I write a lot. And when I feel like I can’t write what I do is like, I listened to somebody who I feel like has all the bars and I just listened to them. And hopefully like, whatever they’re saying, I could have been, it’s like, I listened to ready to die all the time.

Sometimes I listened to it with like an intent of enjoying it. And sometimes I listened to it with an intent of. Soaking up words or like soaking up feeling, you know what I’m saying? And I think part of the game is  you’re not inspired because you’re not feeling something when you feel something you’re able to just make it.

So part of my game is understanding that the feeling that I’m trying to tap into so that I can write, you know what I mean? So something like that.

KOBY: [00:25:12] and that’s something that you’re doing beforehand also before you come out for a session you’re you’re writing, or is that something

that you’re doing at the sessions when you come up?

3DM: [00:25:20] Um, it depends like this particular time. I didn’t write it at all. I probably wrote like, Eight bars or something. And I was just like, I’m going to focus All of my energy when I come up here, like keep it organic, you know what I mean? But sometimes I just end up feeling it and then I just write right there.

You know what I’m saying? And I don’t know. I try to keep my brain into it. If I write too much, I don’t want to be into it because then it feels like school, but you know what I mean? But just. Right when I feel inspired or right. When I think something is cool, it feels cool to me. So it makes me want to do it because it’s feeling cool as I’m writing this bar, my feeling is coming out like, ah, yeah.

You know what I mean? Like this feels good to me. So that’s how I do it.

KOBY: [00:26:08] I feel like it would also be, I mean, it might be more difficult to have you guys kind of both writing separately and then have to come together and like make something work out of that. So it almost, it makes sense to kind of hold that off you’re up there. to work on something together and not try and like

force two

things together where if you’ve written something that, doesn’t fit with beat or something and try and force it that way.


that, that actually makes a

3DM: [00:26:33] lot of sense. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, she may have an idea and he’s just like, yo, I got this beat. I got this idea, but I want you to come up here and wait. And it, idea really comes through better when we wait and we get together. So we kinda just stack our ideas together and then make some hot shit.

JAKE: [00:26:53] So music tends to have trends and you guys always have a fresh and consistent sound. So how do you guys stay true to you and how do you deal with the trends? Do you, how do you incorporate them and how do you not get

caught up in that?

SHIGGY: [00:27:09] Fuck the trends. That’s that’s all I can say to that.

now, but, um, it’s always good to pay attention to trends. You know, there there’s nothing wrong with, paying attention to what’s hot and maybe even using it to your advantage, to what you’re working on next. But, um, at least for me, if we’re working out a body of work, I always have a vision for what it’s going to be.

And no matter what’s hot right now, or what new comes out or anything, it’s, we’re going to see that vision through for what that is. correct.

3DM: [00:27:40] Pretty

SHIGGY: [00:27:40] we try not to let anything else influence what we’re doing and we know some, some people might not like it, but we think it’s hot and because we think it’s hot.

We’re we’re gonna, yeah.

3DM: [00:27:52] Like for instance, bro. Really realistically, it’s like subway store. You know what I’m saying? It may be open all the time, but it’s not every time you feel for a subway sandwich. Sometimes you want pizza. You know what I’m saying? Sometimes you may want wings. We are just here.

We have a consistent sound and we are open for people who want that whenever they want that.

If you want something else, you want wings, you want, sir, you want to turn up. You want to do some other shit, go over there, but we are here for the vibes. You feel me?

KOBY: [00:28:31] Well, I think that’s so true. Cause like, I mean, people get so caught up in trends a lot of the time. And I think it’s an interesting topic, cause like hopping on a trend. It’s one of

those things

like, it can accelerate an artist’s career, like That happens all the time.

But at the same time, like by definition, That success can sort of end up being short-lived. And especially as an artist, that’s a bad thing. Cause like, if you’re bouncing from thing to thing all the time, you’re changing up what you’re doing. you, you never create that brand for somebody to, attach to.

So you talking about like having a consistent sound where you do your thing, you do subway and that’s it. I mean, I mean, that’s the, that’s the best way to go about

JAKE: [00:29:19] it here. I think

3DM: [00:29:20] up and make wings They

Subway don’t switch up and make wings. They don’t do that. They could just going to make a sandwich and that’s that you leave.

KOBY: [00:29:28] Yeah. I think, I think

like following

trends. Too much can, can almost make finding success harder in some situations, because there’s also all that other noise like around you that you have to cut through because every, I mean, a trend is like everybody jumping on one thing. So there’s going to be a bunch of other people doing the same thing.

So if you can find your thing, stick to it. That’s the way to stand out through all the trends. is there a strategy that you guys have for kind of staying modern, like keeping a modern sound but not going with the trends, not following

along, but

the standing out.

3DM: [00:30:04] honestly, um, I think our music always sounds modern because we’re always pushing forward. So I don’t think it’s a matter of keeping up. It’s just a matter of, you know what I’m saying?

What is the freshest thing to do? I think people get caught up in trends and they want to make stuff that people are going to gravitate to because. Maybe that will bring them more attention in certain instances. It’s true. But in most instances, I feel like it’s not, I feel like you just end up sounding like the rest, unless you do something super extraordinary that someone hasn’t done or something new that you will bring to the game.

I feel like it’s always going to be the same unless you try to do fresh shit, keep it original, keep it you. And I feel like, the listener. We’ll pick up on that, like, listen to this, aren’t dumb. Like they’re going to hear everything and they’re going to criticize everything. They’re going to analyze everything that you say.

So I feel like it’s just important to just put your best foot forward and just understand, like, this is me and just make it fresh. That’s it.

KOBY: [00:31:10] well, and like, you guys have

The sound


yours and that’s important to be

identifiable. You know, you want somebody to hear you and know

it’s you.

Right away. and that’s, that’s a huge thing for artists, I think is just developing that brand where it is you, you and your music become the same thing.

You’re, you’re one thing. So I think you hit the nail on the head there that’s.



SHIGGY: [00:31:37] right.

JAKE: [00:31:38] Oh, yeah.

so I have a, I have a quick story about Shiggy teaching me a little lesson. The year is 2016, the setting

SHIGGY: [00:31:51] that this

JAKE: [00:31:51] Mississippi may hat. and I was doing a mix. I think it might’ve been, I feel like it, I feel like it might’ve been the, one of the first mixes I did for you


SHIGGY: [00:32:04] was love me.

JAKE: [00:32:05] was it?


SHIGGY: [00:32:06] I think so, because I remember you, I remember you did that in Mississippi.

JAKE: [00:32:10] Yeah. So I was mixing, I was doing the mix on that and I put like a tiny, tiny, like little review. I mean, I think, I, I think it was tiny and maybe it was like overkill, but a tiny little, crash or splash at one point. And he hit me up and he was like, Hey, take

that out.

Just like, just like super blatant about it.

Super blunt about it. Just like yeah, that he didn’t like it and just take it out. and that taught

me, like,

I don’t always need to put my, my spice on it. I don’t always need to put my flavor

on it. Like

sometimes the song just needs to be mixed. And that’s that, you know what I mean?

And it also taught me that communication is super key. Communication is so key.

KOBY: [00:32:59] well, just like, yeah. Being able to communicate your ideas. I think that idea comes back to what we were just talking about. Like having a sound that, you know, like you guys have a sound that you know, fully, you know, what’s going to work for it. You know, it’s not going to work for it.

So being able to, get that across to somebody, communicate with your team to accomplish that is super important. And, when you have a team of people all like working on something and collaborating a lot of times, I feel like it can be easy to kind of lose that vision. Overall, if you have

you have sort of

in the kitchen, I guess in a bunch of ideas coming in.

So. Being able to speak

JAKE: [00:33:36] speak up like that

KOBY: [00:33:37] like, thank you for doing that, but this is this isn’t the direction

the direction that we’re.

SHIGGY: [00:33:44] gotta know what you want, I guess. can’t let anything get in the way of it. Even, even if that means shutting down a a little extra reverb.

 JAKE: [00:33:53] You’re right? Yeah, it was fine. Yeah, exactly. So lesson for producers, don’t be afraid to speak up and lessons for younger me the client. Isn’t always going to like

KOBY: [00:34:04] like

JAKE: [00:34:04] little thing you do and that’s


And especially fine if they communicate it openly clearly.



KOBY: [00:34:14] Well, I think, I think communication in like an artist producer mixer sort of team is a tricky thing too, just because like, music is a hard thing to talk about. And like, describe, like, if you’re hearing something in your head, Like you have to be able to get that across to somebody in words, which just like, I don’t know, it doesn’t work half the time.

Like there aren’t words to describe the way music makes you feel in a lot of cases and stuff like that. So for you guys collaborating or collaborating with Jake on the mixing side, like how do you manage that? How do you make sure that you can get your ideas


SHIGGY: [00:34:53] I think it’s definitely, it’s gotten better over time. You know, that, type of stuff, it, takes repetition and, working with each other. Over multiple songs and multiple projects to the point where the machine just starts rolling and everyone pretty much knows what we’re going for, it really is, like you said, it, it just comes down to communication.

people can really only understand your ideas as best as you explain them. So you’re lacking in that department, there’s, you know, there’s, there’s a chance. Um, it to be. But terms of, um, Derek and I’s communication, I feel like it’s, it’s pretty natural at this point, right?

Less talk and more work. We kinda.

3DM: [00:35:37] Yeah. It’s pretty regular. Like, there’s no, there’s no filter really. Honestly. I think that’s very important. There can’t be a filter. It has to be just


don’t disrespect, but be honest.

that will just take you where you need to go. And not just with music, that’s just with everything. That’s what life, honestly, like don’t disrespect always maintain your respect with someone else, but be honest and that’s

JAKE: [00:36:03] that’s it,

KOBY: [00:36:04] right. Yeah. I think that’s key to like any, any working relationship, especially like a business sort of relationship. You, you can’t be timid there. You can’t. hold back those ideas, because that just gets in the way of the creative process. And like a lot of the times people are going to, like Jake and that situation, it’s not like Jake was pissed.

They were like, take the reverb off or anything like that. It’s just like, that’s the best thing for the song. That’s the best thing for the vision that you’re going for. You just have to communicate those things in. Yeah. Like you said, in a respectful. Way. I don’t know, those are tricky waters to manage sometimes as an artist.

but I think that’s something that a lot of artists and producers and engineers and everybody in music and the world and the country, and everywhere needs to hear that you just, you need to be able to get those ideas across you. Can’t be shy to say something, but the

respect is, is a key thing and

3DM: [00:36:58] all of that. Yeah, I and she does a good job with that. Shiggy communicators. Ideas properly. And sometimes with music, sometimes you may not be able to communicate your idea. Most times you’re not able to communicate your idea.

You kind of know what you want to do, but you don’t know how to express it. And I think, Siggi’s jus he does very well in that department. I think that’s what a real producer does. I think a real producer actually just. Tries to understand and Siggy always tries to understand. And that is the key.

KOBY: [00:37:34] How do

you guys

manage that? Is it like. I don’t know, singing parts, like


mouth noises,

3DM: [00:37:40] like. Sometimes straight Jimmer is sometimes it’s just like LA LA, LA, LA, just something that can be able to help you communicate your idea. Anything. It

SHIGGY: [00:37:52] works. usually the noises I have to make to them when I have a flow idea, We were just doing that. I was just having to do that

3DM: [00:37:59] to you last night. Yeah. Artists to think it was post Malone. I saw. And like he goes in the booth and he just does straight jibberish.

it’s just a matter of communicating how you feel. And like, sometimes you don’t have words to go with it. You just have to go with how you feel and jibberish is just it.

 SHIGGY: [00:38:20] we definitely, um, especially with me and him I don’t ever really think about words when I, you know, I mean, when I have a beat when I’m creating something and I envisioned him on it, I don’t ever really envision, I don’t ever envision the words. It’s, it’s more just the, the sound and flow of his voice.

And that, can be tough. Sometimes communicating that to him and saying, this is the idea, I know this type of flow, this type of tone. And. flavor of your voice is going to sound great over this and then him trying to take that, but then put words to it and being able to create words to it that can still consist of that same flow and, tone and everything.

it’s a tricky process, the more we do it, the easier, it’s become. the more it works, the more you trust each other. And the more someone has an idea you’ve jumped to and you say, okay, let’s try it. It works, you know, the last time, um, I’m ready to try it again,

KOBY: [00:39:18] right. Yeah. So you, I mean, you guys have that experience. Now you you’ve come across something that works. So you have those go-to things that you can do. and you’re making it work

JAKE: [00:39:28] from a

KOBY: [00:39:28] standpoint other artists out there and specifically artists, producer teams. What’s the biggest mistake that you see other


 3DM: [00:39:40] I feel like mistake could be, you know, just not staying true to you. I feel like it’s obvious when, you know, artists tries to make a song.

That’s clearly not them. Like you could just know it’s not them. And I think that affects how you feel about the record and how it affects how you feel about the person, because in real life, I would know of a person to be a particular way. Once someone acts or deviates from something that I know of them, it kind of makes me weary of them.

I kind of just don’t want to talk to them and that’s just in real life. So I would only imagine that it translates to the music. So I think most of the time it’s just like, yeah, not staying true to you and just Making things that you wouldn’t normally make or saying things that you wouldn’t normally say?

I think that’s, that’s key. That’s that’s a mistake. I think a lot of people got yes men too or feel like if something’s wack, you could just say it’s whack. Like you don’t have to sugarcoat it. I don’t know. I think that could be it like this is whack shit, man.

I don’t like it.

KOBY: [00:40:50] So when you’re, when you’re talking about staying true to yourself,


such a

difficult thing

As a musician. And I think a lot of the times it’s easier to see that somebody is not being themself from the outside, like easier to see that than it is to like see it in yourself.

A lot of the times it comes back to the idea of trends and like people jumping on trends. Because they don’t know what else to do, I guess. So, I think that’s a tough thing to navigate and just takes a lot of self reflection and assessment of what you’re doing and trying to look at it. Like from an outside perspective,

3DM: [00:41:28] I

agree. I think trust is it too. trust is a very big thing. Like I trust Shiggy, you know what I’m saying? So if she tells me like, Yo, I think this would be better, or I think XYZ, I’m going to take it into heavy consideration because he’s there. He knows, you know what I mean? I think other people like other artists may not trust their producer.

And vice versa. The producer may not trust their artists because they feel like they aren’t getting across their vision properly for whatever it could be. I don’t know it could be behavior or it could just be, you know, just trying new things or just trying to grow some artists grow differently as producers.

I don’t know if there’s really a clear cut way. To describe that or like a mistake would be, but yeah,

SHIGGY: [00:42:19] trust the producer that it that’s a very good one. As he said, you got to trust the producer,

we’ve had many of times where, um, We’re working on something and I’ll share with him my vision for it. there’s times he’s like, nah, that’s whack. No, like I don’t see it.

And it’s, it’s Derrick, trust me. You have to at least try it. And more times than not, we try it and you fall in love with it. You fall in love with it. Per perfect. Example of that is, um, Back in November, we put out a little eight track tape called G type and track number four on that it’s called Dusse & crown, features and awesome artists out of Maryland called Primo rice.

But, um, the hook of that song is chopped and screwed and. Once we had the beat. That was my vision immediately with it. I was like, this has to be chopped and screwed. already know. I already know the sequence of how the, the bars would be chopped up for it to be chopped and screwed, but it has to be chopped and screwed.

I had, no, this is the sound for it. And Derek a hundred percent disagreed with me. It didn’t want to take it that direction at all. And I convinced him to at least try. And I think we spent a whole night just putting the hook together, trying to come up with a phrase and chop it up and slow it down. And it worked.

And that’s one of my favorite tracks on that tape. I don’t know about you, So, like I said, trust the producer. If, if you are a duo out there and the producer has a vision for you as an artist, at least give him the benefit of the doubt and try it.

KOBY: [00:43:55] well, that’s something that you guys arrived at that trust from working with each other over a long period of time. And I don’t know, like right now in the music industry with collaboration and stuff, we’re able to do more like long distance sort of like remote collaboration and stuff like that.

And I don’t know, one of the things I fear with


is that

it’ll sort of break up the industry into smaller chunks, I guess. So there’s going to be maybe less of that. long-term


to develop that trust. So I’m wondering what you guys think the future of this type of like long distance collaboration looks like for the industry as a whole or for you guys.

but I mean, with technology and everything, like it’s, it’s more and more possible to do this. Like, like just this week, actually I did, three recording sessions that were. Completely 100% remote. Like I

JAKE: [00:44:51] I

KOBY: [00:44:52] engineering the session from one location, remote controlling a pro tools rig for a session that was happening in a completely different location.

The mics were all set up there and everything. I was by myself in my office and like having that experience, that’s kind of the first time I’ve really done things that way. And I was sort of blown away by how easy it is. So I’m wanting, do you guys see things headed? In that direction. Is there something that would work for your

workflow together like that?

SHIGGY: [00:45:20] I definitely see. future of, a lot of things becoming remote, you know, and through the internet, especially, especially with, how music production is nowadays with things like splice and, you know, the third-party sites for sounds and, and even, the sites like Lander and stuff like that, but, um, I think as awesome as that is, and it makes everything more accessible and faster, you know, what’s gonna cut down the time on the creation process. there’s going to be less organic creations, less, you know, happy accidents, less natural creations going on as you know, it’s like.

When you’re in the same room with someone creating something it’s different than, just sending something through email or being over FaceTime. it’s a different vibe. it’s going to be interesting to, I guess, see what happens with that process and how the, how the music trends change because of that too,

KOBY: [00:46:17] Yeah, for sure. I mean, it’s, funny that like now it’s starting to get to the point where things can feel more alive and one-on-one like, you are the same room with somebody. I mean, there’s obviously a limit to that or that’s never going to be the same as being in a room. but I dunno, it’s interesting. I’m interested to see. How far that can go. And


you said, how

changes music. I think it will it’ll change music. I don’t know how it will change music,

SHIGGY: [00:46:45] Yeah, we’ll see a difference. I agree.

3DM: [00:46:48] I think John was, will change based off of that.

music is community. I think if they’re synonymous with one, another music and community, I do feel like you can have a community online, which has proven, you know, video games and people connect all different types of ways through the internet.

I don’t know if music can maintain its flavor. I don’t know, through how it is through technology or someone as, as opposed, like your story, like you’re controlling like a session remotely. That’s actually dope, but I don’t know. I don’t know if I would be able to do it. Cause I like to like mid session.

I like asking questions or. I like looking at what she’s doing on, you know, logic. It just, even if I may not understand it, just the fact that I’ve just, I’m just looking at it. I’ve seen it before. You know what I mean? So I don’t know.

KOBY: [00:47:46] well, I should clarify a little bit, because I think the type of session is

important but this one is a string quartet

session. So it was like, there’s not really improvisation or anything like changing on the musical end, like going on in that. Yeah. It’s, rehearsed

and everything went into that.

so you guys mentioned that you’re working currently on three song EAP. is that going to be the next


coming out for you guys? Or is there anything


down the pipeline

that our audience should be on the lookout for?

SHIGGY: [00:48:16] I’d say we’re, we’re still figuring out our rollout process for this year.

we said we were going to take this quarter off and not, not worry about anything over the first couple of months. And try to just enjoy the transition to the year,

KOBY: [00:48:29] and here you are in a session.

SHIGGY: [00:48:31] Yup. Well, the creative, the creative process never stops, but, but the, you know, the social media, the, the, all that stuff we’re trying to not, not worry about right now.

we’ve got some things in the works. I think it’s going to be a pretty fun year for both of us hopefully multiple releases, videos, as well as singles, maybe another full length project. I’m not, I’m not entirely sure we’re going to see what happens. we’re trying to take a very organic approach to it this year.

KOBY: [00:49:01] Nice well to our audience beyond the lookout, as year develops, and go check out 3d M and shaggy on wherever you listen music, and to both of you, 3m and shaky. Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down and talk with us today. Walk us through your process, how you guys are working together.

and I think you guys are a great example for our listeners for how this sort of artist producer relationship can really work well, and make something really unique and have your own sound. So


you guys coming on here too.

SHIGGY: [00:49:36] Of course. Thank you for having us. Thank

3DM: [00:49:38] you, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. This is the first time I’ve ever done anything like this. You guys are really like dope just saying.

JAKE: [00:49:44] Thank you very much for coming on. It’s great to see you guys, like, I don’t know how long it’s been since I’ve seen



3DM: [00:49:50] Jake, man, you got life in your face, man. I’m telling you, bro, you look good man out there. I think Kylie’s where he supposed

JAKE: [00:49:55] Thank you, man. You guys are looking good too. and I hope I can see you guys, sooner

than later.

And thank you everyone for listening. If, you made it this far in that episode, go ahead and leave us a five star written review on Apple podcasts right now.

And that will be so amazing of you. Thank you

you guys

for listening.

KOBY: [00:50:15] that’s all we’ve got for you this week and we’ll catch you on the next episode


of self



  3DM: [00:50:24] Three three three, three, three, three, three, three.