Show Notes:

The DIY attitude is an essential part of being an independent artist, but you don’t have to go it alone. Building a team of people around your artist brand can is the key to reaching your fullest potential. But where do you start? A manager? A booking agent? A lawyer?

In this episode, we talk about how to figure out what roles you need a teammate to fill, and how to know if somebody is the right person for the job.

KOBY: [00:00:00] Welcome back for episode 19 of Self-Signed Artist on this podcast. We’re all for doing it yourself. But being an independent artist doesn’t mean going it alone today. We’re going to help you build your team.   How’s it going everybody. I’m Koby Nelson and I’m here with my cohost, my teammate, Jake Mannix.

JAKE: [00:00:56] Team on three it’s going good. How are you doing

KOBY: [00:01:02] Doing all right. I’m actually excited to talk to you about the topic this week, because I admire the team that you’ve kind of put together for yourself, whether that was an intentional thing or just something that kind of came about from your community and your group of friends and everything. and we can talk about that too, if that’s the case.

and I don’t even know if you really consider. Them everybody in your community, a team. but you have this community around you that I think is, is really beneficial. So how would you kind of like categorize that? Would you consider it a team overall or is it just kind of like a group of


JAKE: [00:01:38] it’s?

I wouldn’t say it’s a team. I would say it’s more of like a community. If we’re speaking generally about like all the people that I’m surrounded by. and I laugh about it all the time with them. Like I say all the time, like, isn’t it so funny? How, how extremely talented all of our friends are at like, at like one specific thing, like Vinnie, super good at graphic design. Someone’s really good at something else. You know what I mean?

KOBY: [00:02:08] Yeah. Everybody has a kind of role that they play in the community. you’re saying like it’s not a formal, like. Somebody on your team or you’re on somebody’s team, it’s just kind of a general, a general


JAKE: [00:02:21] And like, it’s not even exclusive. It’s like, we don’t even always work together all the time. We work with other people outside of the group or outside of the community or whatever also.

KOBY: [00:02:33] Yeah. So maybe we’ll get into like some, details of that sort of stuff. Like what makes, what makes a team, what makes a good team, how to choose the right people for your team, if you’re doing that, or if it, if there are ways that you can kind of set yourself up for that to just sort of fall into place naturally.

but first I want to talk about why. This is important in the first place. So in the past, in some episodes, We’ve mentioned building a team in passing. like we talked about collaboration on episode 12, with Brandon, who I would say is part of that part of your community, part of that sort of team.

But I think the overall message of this podcast may sometimes make it seem like having a team isn’t all that important. You know what I mean? Like, like we talk so much about doing things yourself for the things that you have to take care of. And, and like, even in the little intro that we have, like with the crazy movie trailer, voiceover guy talking about how this podcast is for independent artists, like we emphasize that part independent musicians.

so I think a lot of the times in this genre of like educational content for musicians, like the sort of podcast, world that this podcast lives in, we focus a lot on that word. Independent like you don’t, you don’t need a record deal, put your music out there on your own. And in doing that, we take all of these things that our record label would do for you.

And we kind of put them on you. Like we make them your responsibility as the artist. And I think that can be kind of overwhelming for a lot of people like for you and your own artist’s career. Is that something that you. You think about, like, there are so many potential jobs or roles that you kind of have to fill.

If you’re like doing this independently,

JAKE: [00:04:26] Yeah. And that’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, because as you know, I try to do pretty much everything myself. for one reason or another, but during this season of my life, I’m. Changing my mind and for the stuff that I’m going to be releasing and coming up, I want to do it differently.

And I want to work with, I want to work with other people and delegate other jobs to people who are better at doing them than me, rather than me just doing it. The how I know how I’m making it kind of cool. And like, you know, just letting someone else do it

KOBY: [00:05:02] cause I think, I mean, even like if you’re a listener out there listening to this podcast, it’s so easy to, to not allow that to happen, to try and take care of everything yourself, especially because everybody’s kind of telling you, you should be actively. You know, promoting your music, should be building new income streams and booking more shows for yourself.

And, you know, don’t forget about engaging on social media and all this stuff. Like there’s just a lot of stuff. And that’s kinda what the DIY movement that’s been going on for a little while. It’s all built on that. Like do it yourself. DIY has been like a buzz word for the past. 10 years or more, in the music business.

And I think there’s some truth to all of that. like, you need to take control of your brand and treat it like a business that, that part of the message is good and true, but none of that means that you can’t have help from other people. And in fact, if you don’t have help from anybody, you’re never going to get past the very beginning stages of building your career.

Ultimately, because like, eventually if you’re successful in growing it all, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna run into a time where it’s too much to handle on your own and you’re going to start letting things drop off. I think that’s where a lot of people get a little bit discouraged. Like it feels like to me much, it’s overwhelming to handle all of this stuff.

And that’s when people either sort of taper off in their music career. or I don’t know, even just like straight up stop and be like, I, I, this is this isn’t fun anymore. so like, if you’re thinking about all of the potential roles that there are to fill there’s, I mean, there’s the creative side, which, is a huge part of it.

So there’s writing, producing, recording, mixing. Mastering, like the stuff that we talked about the other week with studio mistakes, and all the stuff that you should budget for. And then on top of that, still in the creative side of things, you’ve got photography, videography for music videos, or tour videos or whatever graphic design.

And, and all of that is just, those are just roles that you have to fill to create your product, you know, to put something out. And then after that, you have to be the manager, the business manager, the accountant booking agent tour manager, lawyer, publisher. You’ve got to handle your promotion, your distribution.

Your merge and like sales, you have to be a sales person for your brand. And it’s just so, so much, There are a ton of potential roles to fill or potential team members to bring on. So for that reason, I don’t really want to take the time today to talk about each and every one of them, those specific jobs that we just kind of listed off rattled off.

Cause at the end of the day, honestly, I don’t think those details are all that important, to kind of cover generally. And it’s, too much to cover in one 45 minute podcast episode. Anyway, one thing that I would say though about that, if you, if you want to know those specifics and maybe we’ll do more episodes on that, but for now, for all that info, I would refer you to a really great book that’s out there called all you need to know about the music business.

it’s by, uh, this guy, Donald Pat, who is. Or was, I’m not sure if he’s still practicing, an entertainment attorney. and it’s, I learned, I picked up a whole bunch from that book and I’m reading it again right now because there’s a new edition of it. So if you do pick it up, make sure you get the latest edition of the book.

I think it’s edition 10 right now. Cause it gets updated fairly regularly to stay relevant with what’s going on in like the music business world. Jake. I know you’re not much of a book guy. That’s not like your main thing, but have, have you heard of

that book or read it

JAKE: [00:08:59] I cannot say that I have

KOBY: [00:09:01] honestly, like it’s, it’s one of the things, those things that like, when I first heard of it, the title made me hesitate a little bit. Cause it sounds like super salesy or like it’s promising too much, you know, like all you need to know about the music business. but it’s actually a really good resource.

So I don’t know. I’m listening to it on audible right now. Do you listen to, have you gotten into audible at all?

JAKE: [00:09:20] no in shout out to our song.

KOBY: [00:09:22] Yeah. Not, not a sponsor audible, but

JAKE: [00:09:26] um, no I haven’t. And, I only listened to, to music and podcasts

And you know, what kind of podcasts I listened to Koby  five star ones, just like this. And you know what you should do listener. You should go ahead and leave us a five star review on Apple podcasts.

KOBY: [00:09:44] So anyway, rather than dive into the weeds, which you can do in that book, I want to focus our efforts today on three main interconnected things, three ideas, helping you figure out what roles you need to fill on your team, deciding when it’s time to bring somebody else in to the picture and how to choose the best people for the job.

No matter what job it is. I would say the job itself doesn’t really matter. So we’ll, we’ll get there eventually. let’s start with where I think most people go first, like Jake, for you, when you hear of the idea of hiring somebody for your team, what’s the first role that pops into your head

JAKE: [00:10:26] uh, probably manager.

KOBY: [00:10:28] manager? Yeah, I think, I think most people. Probably think the same thing. And for some reason, everybody thinks that they need to hire a manager first. Like that’s the, the first step. I mean, you can tell me if this is kind of how you think of it too, but I think a lot of people think a manager is going to help them make all the connections that they need to make, you know, help them run their business, help them get gigs, get them sessions with the best producers and the best studios.

And the, the assumption is that you can hire a manager and then sort of like sit back and just think about making and performing your music. And you can kind of tune out all the business stuff. Is that like, if you were looking to hire somebody, would that be the reason you would go for a manager? Would you say.

JAKE: [00:11:14] Yeah, I would just want them to take some of the, the workload that isn’t related to the creating.

KOBY: [00:11:21] Hm. And, like you mentioned earlier, if you’re thinking about sort of like offloading some responsibilities to somebody else, like bringing somebody on to a team, is that, is that where you went first?

JAKE: [00:11:32] for a manager.

KOBY: [00:11:33] Yeah. In your mind, at least.  Okay. So I here’s, here’s my thing with the manager first approach. and I’m sure there are going to be people out there who are going to have different opinions about this. but I think that the issue with hiring manager first is that in order for them to be effective, they need to have something already there.

To really manage. So, say for example, if, if somebody’s just starting, they have no fan following yet. No connections in the industry. no collaborators yet, no venue, relationships, nothing. Like, I think that’s a really big ask for a manager. You’re asking them to kind of make. You as an artist. And I think most people are going to be disappointed with the results, if that’s what their expectation is of somebody that they’re hiring for their team.

Does that make sense to you? Like do, would you disagree with


JAKE: [00:12:28] Yeah. I mean, you can’t, you can’t expect them to put in that sort of work for you, you know, taking you to the, to the next level.

KOBY: [00:12:35] Right. Yeah. That’s kind of the thing. There has to be a starting level that you’ve created, I would say. So I would argue that a manager is one of the last things that you need actually on your team. That’s a role that you need to fill when you already have assembled a team around yourself And now what’s happening is keeping up with everything is becoming too much for you, you know, like writing music, performing, making records, and connecting with fans.

If you no longer have time to do those things, because you’re so busy answering calls and emails from industry people and show promoters and producers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like everybody’s competing for your time. And it’s taking time away from you and your art that I think is when you need a manager.

So for you, Jake, like if that’s the feeling that you’re getting, like maybe that’s the perfect time and the perfect role to, to have somebody fill.

JAKE: [00:13:34] yeah, I mean, it is. like, how do I go about finding one? Is that, you know what I mean? How do I go about, okay. So I feel like, okay, now I need a

manager. cause I can’t just be like, yo.

Yeah, manage me random friend. You know what I

KOBY: [00:13:52] right. Well, I think, I think we’ll get to that later on in the podcast today. Cause I think there are a couple of things that you can use to find the right person or to decide whether somebody is right for a job. So before we get to that, I think there are also two other issues with hiring a manager too early, that you kind of want to make sure that you avoid.

And again, we’re going to come back to this argument from another angle later on, too, I think, but first off, the first issue is that it might be hard to find good manager to begin with when you’re starting out. Kind of like what you were just saying. The reason being managers usually get paid a percentage of the money that you make of the.

The money that you bring in. So if you aren’t making any money through your business, through your music, through shows that you’re doing and stuff like that, there’s really no incentive for a manager or for a good manager to jump on board. You know what I mean? Like if, if somebody’s unproven, that’s a bit of a gamble.

Especially for an established manager who has some experience. I, I do think there are work arounds if you really want a manager. And that’s kind of what we’re going to talk about later finding the right person. But in general, I think it may be hard to find somebody for the job. And then second, if you hire a manager too early, when you’re too small, Assuming that you’ve made it past the step before, and they’ve agreed to work with you.

Chances are you’re going to be a low priority for them and for their time. And this is especially true. If they’re more experienced and established, because if that’s the case, they probably also manage other artists as well. That’s a thing where people, a manager will work for multiple artists.

So if that’s the case, they’re going to put the artist who makes them the most money ahead of you every single time.

And that’s, that’s bad. You don’t want that. and those, those two reasons I think might actually make it detrimental, told to hire a manager. If you’re not ready for it yet, you then have somebody on your team who you need to pay a percentage.

Maybe that’s a small pool of money to begin with. If you’re just starting out and that person you’re paying, isn’t even really hustling all that hard to advance your career because they aren’t seeing enough of a reward for hustling on your behalf. It’s kind of like a catch 22. so, so you, you might argue that a manager that isn’t hustling on behalf is a bad manager, but at the same time, it’s, it’s really just sort of human nature.

Like that’s. That’s kind of capitalism in a sense, like if they’re going to be working hardest for what gets them the biggest reward. so I mean, that kind of raises the question, like who, who do you need first then on your team? If it’s not a manager, who should you bring onto your team first, as you’re trying to build this and my answer to you on that would be.

I don’t know who do you need first then? You know what I mean? Like you have to look at your business and assess your work and your effort and your time, like, what are you spending a bunch of time on that could be better used for something else like for yourself. Jake, do you have an answer for that?

Like what takes all the time away from stuff that you really want to be doing?

JAKE: [00:17:14] for me personally, it would be Yeah. Like one thing that I would absolutely love to give to someone else to do is something like editing or tuning vocals. That is my absolute least favorite thing to do ever. Quantizing drums, nah, tuning vocals. No, thank you.

KOBY: [00:17:37] And that’s something that takes a lot of


JAKE: [00:17:39] Yeah, man. It’s so much time.

KOBY: [00:17:42] so, so, so like as an artist, maybe that’s something different. So like maybe if, if you’re not doing the studio thing, maybe you’re, maybe you’re spending a ton of time filling orders from Merck, you know, like you have to keep track of payments coming in.

You gotta keep track of the inventory. He makes sure everything’s stocked that you’re not like selling things that you’re sold out of. that would involve maybe like managing the website that you’re selling things on. And then you’ve got to do all the actual, like order stuff, like pull inventory when something’s ordered, box it up, walk it down to the local ups location, you know, and then you’re also dealing with waiting for shipments coming in of stuff that you’ve ordered to refill the stock, you know, like.

Those are all things that take a lot of time. Cause you a lot of stress, like maybe the you’re emailing the manufacturer because they aren’t sending you all the stuff that you’ve had to call five times a day and everything’s going nuts. So like, those are all things that if you could, you, you could offload this, those to somebody else.

Is that really a good use of your time as an artist to be doing all of that merge stuff, filling all those orders. I don’t know, probably not in the grand scheme of things. so that could be a good place to start. You just kind of have to find that pain point in your business and figure out a way that you can delegate that task.

It could be a part time gig for somebody that ends up paying for itself. You know, like you’re paying them a small amount of money to do this part time gig, but that could result in more sales. And less headache for you and more time to actually work on the stuff that you really care about. Like, so I dunno, I think there are a ton of examples of things like that, and it really depends on where you are in your career, what you have going on in your business and everything like that.

So How do you actually find those things for yourself? I’ve done this for myself in my mixing business, and I think it’s a good exercise for everybody to do in their artist’s business as well. Just sit down and write down every single task that you do for your brand. Every single thing, small things, big things, things that are like just barely related to your brand.

Write it down. go through that list and organize it by how much time you spend on each one of those things afterwards, and then take the same list make a copy of it and organize it again by how important it is that you personally handle each

JAKE: [00:20:18] each one?

Ooh, I like that.

I like that

a lot.

KOBY: [00:20:22] you have, you have to two lists now that you can compare and you just kind of go across the line.

Look at it and see, see, what are the things that take you the most time to actually do that are the least important for you to personally handle there’s your, task that should be delegated to somebody else. That’s what you should not be using your time for. So whether you have to hire somebody to do that for you, or even better, if you can find somebody who’s willing to volunteer their time.

To do that task. I mean, I think that’s the way to go. Does that make sense?

 So, if you can find that pain point that’s, that’s how you figure out what roles to start with first. and also when it’s necessary to bring somebody in for that job, like you can do that at multiple points during your career. Anytime things are starting to get overwhelming. And that’s that’s when you should be doing this, when things start to feel like too much, I would say, keep in mind too, that.

When we’re talking about your team or bringing somebody on to your team, we aren’t necessarily talking only about people that you would like hire for a job either. I would say Jake, like, you’re a good example of this too. And like the community that we always talk about team. Can and probably should start more informally than just like straight up hiring somebody, like helping out friends in other bands, or other artists.

and I’m I’m maybe you would disagree, but would you say that’s how most of your like, community and team has put together Jake?

JAKE: [00:21:56] Oh yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I don’t know. Well, yeah, for the, for the most part. Yeah.

KOBY: [00:22:02] Like we’ve talked about that in the collaboration episode, you have people who are all just helping out each other. we are creative collaborators. Yeah. You also promote each other really well. So if somebody puts something out, everybody gives a shout out. anytime that somebody in the community. Is putting out music.

Like I see that all the time, everybody’s sharing it, talking about it, supporting it. That’s an essential part of a team I think. And it’s sort of informal. and it’s something that nobody in that community is paying for, but I would still consider that part of a team. and you can’t really pay for that anyways.

Like, you know, you’re not gonna hire. A bunch of people to like, share your music on Instagram or something. If you, if you do that, you’re going to go broke real quick to have it, have any like big effect to just pay for every single social media share. so, so for the listeners out there, I would say, start on official, ask your friends and family for help and support.

most of your friends and family are going to be willing to help you on, on small things, and ask fans for help and support. Like we talked to Sawyer auger about that last week, his fans would do anything to help him out. there, his record label, he like, he calls them his record label. So your fans can be part of your team too.

And, they’ll likely volunteer. To do it, if you’ve, if you built that relationship up well. so that kind of then begs the second part of the question. No matter what the job or role is on your team, how do you choose the right person for it? If you are the one who has to choose. And here’s where we can kind of bust some misconceptions about teams that I think a lot of people have this doesn’t even necessarily only apply to the music business either.

I would kind of argue that this goes for any business in any field. I think that there are five main qualities to look for in somebody for your team. If you’re going to intentionally bring somebody on to fill a role on a team. Let’s go through those five things. and just talk about, how, how to go about looking for those people, or why they’re important.

for number one, quality, number one, to look for in somebody that you’re gonna bring onto your team, they better like your music and believe in what you’re doing. I think that’s extremely. Important. Would you agree with that Jake? Like that’s to me that’s quality. Number one, if it doesn’t, if they don’t meet that criteria,

no point

for that, like, it doesn’t matter if you’re hiring a manager or I don’t know a runner on tour, you know, like some, a low person on the totem pole or somebody with a lot of power, if they really like what you do and they believe in you. They’re going to be a thousand percent better at their job, whether they’re experienced or not.

I think if they don’t give a crap about what you do, why would they give crap about what they do for you? You know what I mean? it’s gonna inject that role with, motivation and intention because they, they believe in the bigger picture. And I think that that’s hugely important and it’s why fans can be a great place to pull from for your team, because they already like you and they already believe in you.

so that’s a good place to start.

JAKE: [00:25:25] I’m trying to think of like, people, in relation to me who would be good, good candidates for that. And trying to think of like, like examples of people to reach out to, you know what I mean?

KOBY: [00:25:40] well, I think you would have to take into consideration the specific role that you’re asking for to,

cause that’s not to say that like, Anybody who is like a fan or passionate about what you do is going to be perfect for every single role. like, just because somebody likes their music doesn’t mean I would hire them as a producer for myself.

You know what I mean? but yeah, so you do have to take that into account, but it’s, these are kind of just the things to the list of things to run through in your mind when you have somebody in mind for position. Position and make it sound super, super business. Um, when you have somebody in mind for our role on a team, run through these, and if they check off all the boxes, then that’s kinda like the green light to bring that person on.

so on to quality, number two. I would say, I would say they have to share your vision. So this is different than number one. you want people on your team who not only like what you’re doing, but they also get what you’re going for They can understand your goals and see the big picture that you’re talking about.

they, if they don’t do that, if they, if they can’t see where you’re trying to go, It doesn’t matter if they’re really, really dedicated and working really hard at their job, because they might be pushing in a different direction than you’re trying to push. So they might not be the right person for the job if they can’t quite align themselves with whatever your vision is.

so that’s just something to, to keep in mind. If they don’t check that box, then you might want to look for somebody else for the same role.

JAKE: [00:27:18] It’s important to work with people that entirely understand your vision and what you’re going for and all of that stuff, because you have to, if, if someone’s working with you on your team, you have to understand like the. Like the lane that this person is going down and the like, environment that their music like lives in, you know what I mean?

KOBY: [00:27:38] Right. It’s like you have to understand on an art level as well.  yeah, I think that’s a good point. onto quality number three for a team member. Here’s one that I think gets overlooked a lot. I would say that they should have their own goals that they’re personally motive motivated for as well. so by that, I mean, if they’re personally motivated to grow in their own world and their own career, that’s going to also help you grow.

If say they, they want to be the most well respected booking agent in the business. You know, like that’s a personal goal for them, but if they have that personal goal, they’re probably going to be pretty good at booking stuff for you. They’re going to be a good booking agent to have on your team.

Does that make sense? You don’t want somebody who’s like passionate about you, but they have no personal goals.

JAKE: [00:28:32] Yeah. That’s to me thinking about that, I feel like that’s tough to find.

KOBY: [00:28:37] It is, that’s a, all of these are our major qualities that are, I don’t know, not necessarily super, super common, especially not all together. And that’s why building a team can sometimes be hard.

I don’t even know what that means.

JAKE: [00:28:58] It’s like, cause this is it’s like filtering out all the different people that are, could be candidates.

KOBY: [00:29:05] Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Tougher than a Brita filter to add one more tough thing to

that quality, number four, they should be responsive available. And not flaky.

JAKE: [00:29:23] That’s that’s that’s bottom line.

bare minimum.

KOBY: [00:29:26] yeah, if, if they don’t meet this quality, like, I mean, it’s going to


rough. Yeah. to give an example of that, like maybe your manager can work absolute magic in a negotiator. Like they are so, so good. Okay. At negotiating. But if you can never seem to get a hold of them, when you have a negotiation that needs negotiating, when that’s most important, like that skill of theirs, isn’t going to do you any good.

So they have to be available. They have to be. Somebody who’s going to pick up the phone early, I talked about like how sometimes a more established and experienced manager might not be the way to go. Like, especially if you’re just starting out. This I think is one of the big reasons that bigger manager probably isn’t going to be available at the drop of a hat to help you out because they might have a bigger, more established artist that they need to answer to first, like you can’t fault them for that.

That’s just a bad choice of a team member on your part. If you go with that person, cause you have to know that they’re going to have these other responsibilities that they have to take care of. Like Jake, this, I want to get your opinion on this too, because in this situation, think it might be better to go with somebody who is a complete unknown in the industry has zero experience managing, but they’re really passionately dedicated to helping you grow.

would you agree that

that’s the person that you want on your side, in that situation?

JAKE: [00:30:57] because because if you find something that works like a marketing strategy or, you know, something like, Sawyer was talking about last week where he’s like, yeah, do the Facebook live thing. They’re going to be so down to do that.

KOBY: [00:31:12] it’s going to be a person who’s willing to try things and kind of learn and grow with you, whether that’s the best manager for you. Longterm in your career, like for forever. I don’t know. You could make an argument against that. That maybe eventually you want somebody with some experience or some clout in the industry, but I think you can get along way with somebody who is just.

100% invested in you and they’re not going to have to answer to anybody else. So there, you’re not going to have that problem of them not being able to respond or not being able to come to a meeting or just not being able to get ahold of them in general. Right. So finally, moving on to quality, number five.

With all else being equal. If you have two people who are exactly the same, as far as the previous four qualities go choose the person who’s more connected, more connections and a stronger network that those things are valid. I think most people reach for this first, when they’re looking for somebody on a team, you know what I mean?

I like, I don’t think this is the most valuable thing in a teammate, but it is valuable. Would you agree


JAKE: [00:32:26] Yeah. It’s I think it’s, it’s very valuable. I mean, there’s the saying, it’s all about who, you know, and there’s some truth to that, to an extent. but with that being said, someone having no connections does not

KOBY: [00:32:41] Right. This is how I would like differentiate between two people with everything else being equal. And I would caution people against choosing somebody for their team based solely on the power of that person’s network. Because it doesn’t really matter. If that person has a really great network, if they aren’t going to actively and aggressively connect you with the people in that network, you know what I mean?

Like if they’re. Invested in other people, if they’re a flaky person, like we just mentioned before, or if they don’t really believe in your music, the power of their network is great, but it’s not great for you cause there’s not going to connect you to that network. So I would say people’s connections are only as good as the amount that they’re willing to use those connections to help you.

So again, a more experienced person may have the better looking Rolodex or whatever, but, but that doesn’t mean that they’re going to be a good advocate for you. So use this as a last differentiating factor, not the first thing that you use to qualify somebody on your team. is there anything that you can think of Jake that would be another quality on top of those five?


JAKE: [00:33:58] that’s important for Honestly, just, just motivation and, and I can’t think of the word it’s not discipline, but it’s like being able to get the work done

KOBY: [00:34:11] Dedication. yeah,

JAKE: [00:34:16] Anything that you would see on a poster with people skydiving in a circle.

KOBY: [00:34:24] in, in like the, the administration office at the,

yeah, you go, go find some. Skydiving team people. That’s the take home


JAKE: [00:34:39] Yes. Find some exactly.

KOBY: [00:34:46] think the take home message is that it doesn’t really matter what your team looks like. Having a team that works for you and serves the functions that you need is the most important thing. So if it’s somebody who is going to get the job done that you need done. That’s the right person for the team for whatever role it is.

And any part of your business can benefit from having a team of people surrounding it? I think the creative parts of your business, that’s what we’re talking about. When we’re talking about collaborating, those are the creative parts of your business, or the businessy.

Parts of the business to just make sure that you’re surrounding yourself with people who are the most likely to be with you and to work hard and fight for you when needed. Would you agree? That’s kind of a take home.

 So tell us about your experiences with building a team.

What does your team look like? If you have a team or a community or something informal, we want to hear about those experiences in the self signed community group on Facebook. so make sure you head over to

Facebook and join that group.

JAKE: [00:35:55] If you got something out of this episode, go ahead and leave a five star rating and written review on Apple podcasts that tells the little Apple machine that this podcast is worth checking out.


and also share this with your friends, your musician, friends, your engineer, friends, your producer, friends.

Cause who knows maybe one day,

KOBY: [00:36:18] Absolutely.

That’s it for this week. We’ll catch you on next week’s episode of Self-Signed Artist.